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	<title>Comments on: Please Turn off Your Spam Protection</title>
	<atom:link href="http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/12/12/please-turn-off-your-spam-protection/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/12/12/please-turn-off-your-spam-protection/</link>
	<description>Linux, politics, and other interesting things</description>
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		<title>By: Albert</title>
		<link>http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/12/12/please-turn-off-your-spam-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-17584</link>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etbe.coker.com.au/?p=966#comment-17584</guid>
		<description>Hi Russell - Happy New Year from Maryland, USA! I read this post awhile back, and just happened upon your site while doing some updates, figured I&#039;d share this story.

I remember when I first setup my mail servers, a client forwarded me a rejected message. I contacted the systems administrator about it - it was a mismatched reverse DNS record and the host name of the mail server. I requested a bypass, and the sysadmin was polite, but incredibly firm that there was no way it was going to happen.

That made an impact, and since then, I&#039;ve been quite serious and detailed about how all our email networks are setup.

Therefore, I support your position. Though my documentation is a bit sloppy, I&#039;ve written up a lot of my spam prevention strategies here:

http://www.docunext.com/blog/2006/12/13/postfix-uce-spam-settings-page-1/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Russell &#8211; Happy New Year from Maryland, USA! I read this post awhile back, and just happened upon your site while doing some updates, figured I&#8217;d share this story.</p>
<p>I remember when I first setup my mail servers, a client forwarded me a rejected message. I contacted the systems administrator about it &#8211; it was a mismatched reverse DNS record and the host name of the mail server. I requested a bypass, and the sysadmin was polite, but incredibly firm that there was no way it was going to happen.</p>
<p>That made an impact, and since then, I&#8217;ve been quite serious and detailed about how all our email networks are setup.</p>
<p>Therefore, I support your position. Though my documentation is a bit sloppy, I&#8217;ve written up a lot of my spam prevention strategies here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.docunext.com/blog/2006/12/13/postfix-uce-spam-settings-page-1/" rel="nofollow">http://www.docunext.com/blog/2006/12/13/postfix-uce-spam-settings-page-1/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/12/12/please-turn-off-your-spam-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-17239</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etbe.coker.com.au/?p=966#comment-17239</guid>
		<description>It is interesting how arbitrary spam levels are, which still strongly suggests that most of it is controlled by a relatively small number of people. 

I guess McColo proved that was the case for most of the growth in spam in the last year. I have two servers, with similar numbers of domains pointed at them, one rejects twice as many emails a day as the other.

The utility of email is probably more threatened by badly done spam solutions. A good blacklist, a decent MTA, and greylisting will kill the bulk of spam (with little risk of error), and a Bayes filter in your email client will kill most of the rest (with some risk of error).

I&#039;m more worried that as spam filtering gets better the bad guys will switch botnets to other roles.

I get more grief from our users about SPF stopping genuine email (and we don&#039;t use SPF), and Hotmail deleting genuine emails, than I do about spam that gets through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is interesting how arbitrary spam levels are, which still strongly suggests that most of it is controlled by a relatively small number of people. </p>
<p>I guess McColo proved that was the case for most of the growth in spam in the last year. I have two servers, with similar numbers of domains pointed at them, one rejects twice as many emails a day as the other.</p>
<p>The utility of email is probably more threatened by badly done spam solutions. A good blacklist, a decent MTA, and greylisting will kill the bulk of spam (with little risk of error), and a Bayes filter in your email client will kill most of the rest (with some risk of error).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m more worried that as spam filtering gets better the bad guys will switch botnets to other roles.</p>
<p>I get more grief from our users about SPF stopping genuine email (and we don&#8217;t use SPF), and Hotmail deleting genuine emails, than I do about spam that gets through.</p>
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		<title>By: etbe</title>
		<link>http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/12/12/please-turn-off-your-spam-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-17217</link>
		<dc:creator>etbe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 07:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etbe.coker.com.au/?p=966#comment-17217</guid>
		<description>Jaymz: If one of the DNSBLs that I use is impossible to get removed from for someone who is not matching the criteria then I will probably stop using it.  But the complaints about difficulty in removal from DNSBLs seem mostly based on the dial-up lists and the complaints come from people who have dynamic IP addresses - or IP addresses from the same range that their ISP uses for dynamic IPs.

Qmail is anti-social in that it will bounce spam to non-existent addresses.

SPF is good for protecting the reputation of the sender and protecting against joe-jobs.  But any spammer can register a domain like peypel.com, put in a valid SPF record and start sending out SPF compliant mail.

DKIM (the successor to DomainKeys) is similar in benefits to SPF but uses cryptographic signing instead of a list of valid sender addresses.

Helmut: Yesterday my mail server rejected 8335 messages, that&#039;s 5.8 per minute.  While there are some other accounts in my domain, the vast majority of spam is targeted at me personally.

Regarding the whois list, I have idly considered configuring my mail server to use the whois list for all top level domains other than .au, .de, and any others in a similar situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jaymz: If one of the DNSBLs that I use is impossible to get removed from for someone who is not matching the criteria then I will probably stop using it.  But the complaints about difficulty in removal from DNSBLs seem mostly based on the dial-up lists and the complaints come from people who have dynamic IP addresses &#8211; or IP addresses from the same range that their ISP uses for dynamic IPs.</p>
<p>Qmail is anti-social in that it will bounce spam to non-existent addresses.</p>
<p>SPF is good for protecting the reputation of the sender and protecting against joe-jobs.  But any spammer can register a domain like peypel.com, put in a valid SPF record and start sending out SPF compliant mail.</p>
<p>DKIM (the successor to DomainKeys) is similar in benefits to SPF but uses cryptographic signing instead of a list of valid sender addresses.</p>
<p>Helmut: Yesterday my mail server rejected 8335 messages, that&#8217;s 5.8 per minute.  While there are some other accounts in my domain, the vast majority of spam is targeted at me personally.</p>
<p>Regarding the whois list, I have idly considered configuring my mail server to use the whois list for all top level domains other than .au, .de, and any others in a similar situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Helmut</title>
		<link>http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/12/12/please-turn-off-your-spam-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-17216</link>
		<dc:creator>Helmut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 07:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etbe.coker.com.au/?p=966#comment-17216</guid>
		<description>Could you publish raw numbers? I.e. how much spam do you currently receive and what percentage is filtered out? I&#039;ve seen that rates about 1 mail/minute is perfectly manageable. Maybe yours is higher.

In any case is is good to hear that you don&#039;t use whois based block lists (they block the de first level domain among others) (reponse to your last entry on this topic), so it looks like at least my server would be &quot;enough&quot; compliant to work with yours. %-)

Helmut</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could you publish raw numbers? I.e. how much spam do you currently receive and what percentage is filtered out? I&#8217;ve seen that rates about 1 mail/minute is perfectly manageable. Maybe yours is higher.</p>
<p>In any case is is good to hear that you don&#8217;t use whois based block lists (they block the de first level domain among others) (reponse to your last entry on this topic), so it looks like at least my server would be &#8220;enough&#8221; compliant to work with yours. %-)</p>
<p>Helmut</p>
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		<title>By: Jaymz Julian</title>
		<link>http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/12/12/please-turn-off-your-spam-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-17211</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaymz Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 05:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etbe.coker.com.au/?p=966#comment-17211</guid>
		<description>To be fair about DNSBL&#039;s, getting off some of them really does range from difficult to impossible.  While I agree with your general tone, still I wonder about the continuing usefulness of email in this environment.

We&#039;re all fucked, and I have no idea what the answer is*

 --jj

*I have some ideas, but none of them are _the_ answer.  And they all suck.  I&#039;d make SPF work, but it&#039;s hard to make work right with upstream.  Domainkeys requires MTA patching that is a pain for qmail.  changing MTA&#039;s is also a pain.  etc.  Killing the spammers is neither violent enough nor painful enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair about DNSBL&#8217;s, getting off some of them really does range from difficult to impossible.  While I agree with your general tone, still I wonder about the continuing usefulness of email in this environment.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re all fucked, and I have no idea what the answer is*</p>
<p> &#8211;jj</p>
<p>*I have some ideas, but none of them are _the_ answer.  And they all suck.  I&#8217;d make SPF work, but it&#8217;s hard to make work right with upstream.  Domainkeys requires MTA patching that is a pain for qmail.  changing MTA&#8217;s is also a pain.  etc.  Killing the spammers is neither violent enough nor painful enough.</p>
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