Comments on: The Purpose of Planet Debian http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/04/21/purpose-of-planet-debian/ Linux, politics, and other interesting things Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:31:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: etbe http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/04/21/purpose-of-planet-debian/#comment-13181 etbe Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:23:37 +0000 http://etbe.coker.com.au/?p=575#comment-13181 seth: Thanks for that information. I have no idea why it would have been giving a 404 (and it's way too late to search my logs), but that's a fair reason for removing a blog. It is a pity that there is no contact information for the Planet admin and that the admin didn't send me an email. I'll send an email to the Planet admin shortly. seth: Thanks for that information. I have no idea why it would have been giving a 404 (and it’s way too late to search my logs), but that’s a fair reason for removing a blog. It is a pity that there is no contact information for the Planet admin and that the admin didn’t send me an email.

I’ll send an email to the Planet admin shortly.

]]> By: seth vidal http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/04/21/purpose-of-planet-debian/#comment-13177 seth vidal Thu, 24 Apr 2008 04:56:59 +0000 http://etbe.coker.com.au/?p=575#comment-13177 planet fedora blog: I'm not sure but I believe your blog was removed b/c it started giving me a 404 on the rss feed and filling up the logs. istr that this site changed, but I might be misremembering that. If you'd like it re-added email admin@fedoraproject.org and it'll get taken care of. thanks -sv planet fedora blog:
I’m not sure but I believe your blog was removed b/c it started giving me a 404 on the rss feed and filling up the logs. istr that this site changed, but I might be misremembering that.

If you’d like it re-added email admin@fedoraproject.org and it’ll get taken care of.

thanks
-sv

]]> By: etbe http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/04/21/purpose-of-planet-debian/#comment-13154 etbe Wed, 23 Apr 2008 03:52:02 +0000 http://etbe.coker.com.au/?p=575#comment-13154 For people who can't understand my previous comment: Based on my experience of having lived for most of my life in Australia and having visited Germany many times I don't believe that there is any significant difference in cultural norms between Germany and Australia in regard to posts about an iBrator. This does not mean that such posts would be appropriate for all Planet installations, and of course has nothing to do with the issue of whether a Planet might have a policy against such posts which makes it a criteria for removing a blog feed. I'm happy to debate this matter further, but I would appreciate it if people who disagree with me could provide some references. I have already provided references about Australian cultural norms. For people who can’t understand my previous comment:
Based on my experience of having lived for most of my life in Australia and having visited Germany many times I don’t believe that there is any significant difference in cultural norms between Germany and Australia in regard to posts about an iBrator.

This does not mean that such posts would be appropriate for all Planet installations, and of course has nothing to do with the issue of whether a Planet might have a policy against such posts which makes it a criteria for removing a blog feed.

I’m happy to debate this matter further, but I would appreciate it if people who disagree with me could provide some references. I have already provided references about Australian cultural norms.

]]> By: etbe http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/04/21/purpose-of-planet-debian/#comment-13152 etbe Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:15:33 +0000 http://etbe.coker.com.au/?p=575#comment-13152 http://www.snopes.com/risque/kinky/hero.asp I first saw the "husband dressed as batman" story printed on the front page of "The Age" (the least tabloid of the Melbourne newspapers) in about 1994 (when people were more conservative than they are now). I discussed the matter with colleagues at work (including female colleagues) and no-one considered it inappropriate. I believe that standards in Sydney are more liberal than in Melbourne (Sydney has the Gay Mardi-Gras). Sydney and Melbourne comprise about half of Australia's population. I believe that anyone who claims that a news report about an iGasm is not suitable by Australian cultural standards either knows little about what Australian standards are (they must not read major newspapers or watch TV), or they are lying. Of course if the German guy had made some jokes about the iGasm then that might have been inappropriate by Australian standards. But reporting the news about such a device could appear in any of the Australian papers. The "MX" paper that's given away for free on Melbourne public transport (and is available for children) contains a lot of tabloid material related to sex. The actions of the German guy as you describe them sound rather strange. If he was smarter he would have just compared his writings to what is printed in The Age or other respected Australian papers. Below are a few URLs returned by a search for "sex" on theage.com.au: http://www.theage.com.au/news/relationships/when-sex-is-a-oneway-street/2008/04/21/1208742824535.html http://news.theage.com.au/marilyn-monroe-sex-reel-sells-for-15-million-us-dollars-report/20080415-2696.html http://www.theage.com.au/news/tv--radio/tricks-of-trade/2008/04/16/1208025264067.html Not that the major Australian papers deserve so much respect, the quality of the news is quite low. http://www.snopes.com/risque/kinky/hero.asp
I first saw the “husband dressed as batman” story printed on the front page of “The Age” (the least tabloid of the Melbourne newspapers) in about 1994 (when people were more conservative than they are now). I discussed the matter with colleagues at work (including female colleagues) and no-one considered it inappropriate. I believe that standards in Sydney are more liberal than in Melbourne (Sydney has the Gay Mardi-Gras). Sydney and Melbourne comprise about half of Australia’s population.

I believe that anyone who claims that a news report about an iGasm is not suitable by Australian cultural standards either knows little about what Australian standards are (they must not read major newspapers or watch TV), or they are lying.

Of course if the German guy had made some jokes about the iGasm then that might have been inappropriate by Australian standards. But reporting the news about such a device could appear in any of the Australian papers. The “MX” paper that’s given away for free on Melbourne public transport (and is available for children) contains a lot of tabloid material related to sex.

The actions of the German guy as you describe them sound rather strange. If he was smarter he would have just compared his writings to what is printed in The Age or other respected Australian papers. Below are a few URLs returned by a search for “sex” on theage.com.au:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/relationships/when-sex-is-a-oneway-street/2008/04/21/1208742824535.html
http://news.theage.com.au/marilyn-monroe-sex-reel-sells-for-15-million-us-dollars-report/20080415-2696.html
http://www.theage.com.au/news/tv–radio/tricks-of-trade/2008/04/16/1208025264067.html

Not that the major Australian papers deserve so much respect, the quality of the news is quite low.

]]> By: jldugger http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/04/21/purpose-of-planet-debian/#comment-13149 jldugger Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:11:39 +0000 http://etbe.coker.com.au/?p=575#comment-13149 There were policies in place, about relevance and appropriateness. The conflict was cultural. An Australian woman felt <a href="http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/25/0116259" rel="nofollow">iGasm were not family safe and had no place on the Planet. The German man who posted it felt it was fine and within his own cultural norms to discuss, and relevant to Ubuntu in the sense that Apple was suing the company</A>. Such a debate goes on to take on dimensions of gender discrimination and the German decides to revoke his signature on the Code of Conduct and in a strange calculus, decided he'd leave for openSUSE rather than deal with anonymous forwarded complaints and the Community Council. He returned early this year, and I don't know if anything was actually resolved, other than he appears to have decided to focus on wine and FAI. I suppose he was rather clever, if he was able to leave for six months and come back with minimal fanfare or accountability or even opposition. There were policies in place, about relevance and appropriateness. The conflict was cultural. An Australian woman felt iGasm were not family safe and had no place on the Planet. The German man who posted it felt it was fine and within his own cultural norms to discuss, and relevant to Ubuntu in the sense that Apple was suing the company.

Such a debate goes on to take on dimensions of gender discrimination and the German decides to revoke his signature on the Code of Conduct and in a strange calculus, decided he’d leave for openSUSE rather than deal with anonymous forwarded complaints and the Community Council. He returned early this year, and I don’t know if anything was actually resolved, other than he appears to have decided to focus on wine and FAI. I suppose he was rather clever, if he was able to leave for six months and come back with minimal fanfare or accountability or even opposition.

]]> By: daniels http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/04/21/purpose-of-planet-debian/#comment-13146 daniels Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:44:16 +0000 http://etbe.coker.com.au/?p=575#comment-13146 Given I haven't ever spoken about it publicly (or, at least, certainly don't recall doing so), I don't see why you're so intent on putting these labels on moon.d.n. If NAMBLA touts Debian as a distribution ideal (indeed, designed for) paedophiles, would you be banging Debian's door, demanding they answer these allegations? moon.d.n is what it is: a (usually outdated) copy of Planet Debian with the list of blogs modified. If you want to speculate further on the purpose, feel free to do so, but don't hang it on the people running it. (Interestingly, only two people have ever emailed the contact address that was listed there: one wanted a blog added, and another a hackergotchi updated. Apparently idly postulating about these matters is more entertaining than actually finding out.) Given I haven’t ever spoken about it publicly (or, at least, certainly don’t recall doing so), I don’t see why you’re so intent on putting these labels on moon.d.n. If NAMBLA touts Debian as a distribution ideal (indeed, designed for) paedophiles, would you be banging Debian’s door, demanding they answer these allegations?

moon.d.n is what it is: a (usually outdated) copy of Planet Debian with the list of blogs modified. If you want to speculate further on the purpose, feel free to do so, but don’t hang it on the people running it.

(Interestingly, only two people have ever emailed the contact address that was listed there: one wanted a blog added, and another a hackergotchi updated. Apparently idly postulating about these matters is more entertaining than actually finding out.)

]]> By: etbe http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/04/21/purpose-of-planet-debian/#comment-13145 etbe Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:45:51 +0000 http://etbe.coker.com.au/?p=575#comment-13145 jdugger: I believe that having a developer quit is an example of why there needs to be a purpose for a Planet and a set of guidelines for content. I don't find Planet Debian to be too large to pay attention to. PGDN works well and quickly. daniels: Your Planet is being touted as a Debian resource which is aimed at removing "the worst abusers". If you don't agree to it being promoted in that manner then it would be good if you could clarify the situation. jdugger: I believe that having a developer quit is an example of why there needs to be a purpose for a Planet and a set of guidelines for content.

I don’t find Planet Debian to be too large to pay attention to. PGDN works well and quickly.

daniels: Your Planet is being touted as a Debian resource which is aimed at removing “the worst abusers”. If you don’t agree to it being promoted in that manner then it would be good if you could clarify the situation.

]]> By: daniels http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/04/21/purpose-of-planet-debian/#comment-13134 daniels Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:24:01 +0000 http://etbe.coker.com.au/?p=575#comment-13134 daniels@brainfreeze:~% host moon.debian.net moon.debian.net is an alias for amnesiac.heapspace.net. amnesiac.heapspace.net has address 80.87.131.51 I didn't know that developers' personal machines counted as project resources. Or are you referring to the unwieldy burden of a CNAME? Also, cute proof-by-assertion that it does not 'benefit readers'. daniels@brainfreeze:~% host moon.debian.net
moon.debian.net is an alias for amnesiac.heapspace.net.
amnesiac.heapspace.net has address 80.87.131.51

I didn’t know that developers’ personal machines counted as project resources. Or are you referring to the unwieldy burden of a CNAME?

Also, cute proof-by-assertion that it does not ‘benefit readers’.

]]> By: jldugger http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/04/21/purpose-of-planet-debian/#comment-13132 jldugger Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:29:07 +0000 http://etbe.coker.com.au/?p=575#comment-13132 Flooding the planet scenarios are like "I upgraded my website and the RSS feed script created new GUIDs for all the entries so the last twenty entries got reposted to Planet," for the most part. There was a minor scuffle after an Ubuntu developer made a post about iBrator or some other computer dildo silliness. Someone complained and the end result was he wound up quitting for about a year over his feed being removed from the planet. The important reason this policing exists is because the Community Council is the final arbiter of policies established. There is no general resolution that can be passed to override it. If someone complains that removing their posts about too many women doing too little in Open Source amounts to censorship, the most they can do is complain on mailing lists and ultimately tie up the five or so people on the Council who have to give the fellow some amount of due process. Personally, the Planet Debian and Planet Ubuntu are too large to really pay attention to. Blog memes amount to twenty nearly identical posts about an upcoming release or ordering the set of {ls, clear, cd, grep, vim, apt-get} based on their popularity in BASH_HISTORY. I find myself mostly cherry picking individual feeds from planets for liferea based on whether they contain informative and interesting posts like this one. Also, I should probably find a feed of planet debian without Clint Adam's Bayesian spam busting RSS feed. Flooding the planet scenarios are like “I upgraded my website and the RSS feed script created new GUIDs for all the entries so the last twenty entries got reposted to Planet,” for the most part. There was a minor scuffle after an Ubuntu developer made a post about iBrator or some other computer dildo silliness. Someone complained and the end result was he wound up quitting for about a year over his feed being removed from the planet.

The important reason this policing exists is because the Community Council is the final arbiter of policies established. There is no general resolution that can be passed to override it. If someone complains that removing their posts about too many women doing too little in Open Source amounts to censorship, the most they can do is complain on mailing lists and ultimately tie up the five or so people on the Council who have to give the fellow some amount of due process.

Personally, the Planet Debian and Planet Ubuntu are too large to really pay attention to. Blog memes amount to twenty nearly identical posts about an upcoming release or ordering the set of {ls, clear, cd, grep, vim, apt-get} based on their popularity in BASH_HISTORY. I find myself mostly cherry picking individual feeds from planets for liferea based on whether they contain informative and interesting posts like this one. Also, I should probably find a feed of planet debian without Clint Adam’s Bayesian spam busting RSS feed.

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