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	<title>Comments on: Drugs and an Election</title>
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	<link>http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/</link>
	<description>Linux, politics, and other interesting things</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: MJR's slef-reflections: 21 today! MJR around the web...</title>
		<link>http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-13053</link>
		<dc:creator>MJR's slef-reflections: 21 today! MJR around the web...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-13053</guid>
		<description>[...]  Drugs and an Election &#124; etbe [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  Drugs and an Election | etbe [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Burrows</title>
		<link>http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-11102</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Burrows</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-11102</guid>
		<description>Russell: That's probably true.  On further reflection, I think my perspective is warped by living under the utterly broken political system here in the US.  The flimsy regulation of prescribed drugs probably has more to do with the corruption in our Congress than anything else, and unless Australia suffers similar problems I don't see why you couldn't do what you've proposed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russell: That&#8217;s probably true.  On further reflection, I think my perspective is warped by living under the utterly broken political system here in the US.  The flimsy regulation of prescribed drugs probably has more to do with the corruption in our Congress than anything else, and unless Australia suffers similar problems I don&#8217;t see why you couldn&#8217;t do what you&#8217;ve proposed.</p>
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		<title>By: etbe</title>
		<link>http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-11100</link>
		<dc:creator>etbe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 02:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-11100</guid>
		<description>Daniel: Political advertising is unique in that many parties will want to advertise for one organisation.  For example you can limit what adverts the Liberal party pays for but limiting the ability of (for example) fundamentalist Christian groups (which in many ways can be regarded as cults) to promote the Liberal party is extremely difficult.

Advertising for commercial products is much easier because almost all the advertising is directly paid for by the company that produces or sells the product in question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel: Political advertising is unique in that many parties will want to advertise for one organisation.  For example you can limit what adverts the Liberal party pays for but limiting the ability of (for example) fundamentalist Christian groups (which in many ways can be regarded as cults) to promote the Liberal party is extremely difficult.</p>
<p>Advertising for commercial products is much easier because almost all the advertising is directly paid for by the company that produces or sells the product in question.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Burrows</title>
		<link>http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-11083</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Burrows</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-11083</guid>
		<description>Russel:

What I was obliquely referring to is the fact that the US courts have taken a very expansive view of the free-speech rights of corporate entities (at the same time they're busy restricting the rest of us).  I don't know for sure that this applies to commercial advertising, it might only be political advertising, but my impression is that it's quite difficult to get anti-advertising rules to actually stick.  (this might be due to "campaign contributions" and not the courts, though)

I wasn't suggesting that the products would be "sold wildly" as soon as they were unbanned (by which I guess you mean sold without regulation).  We have lots of restricted pharmaceuticals here -- and many of them are advertised on television and elsewhere in order to convince as many people as possible to start using the drug.  The ads have to meet certain requirements to be legal, but it hasn't stopped them from making medically inaccurate (explicit or implicit) claims and attracting many buyers whose need for the drug is questionable. (this is all AIUI from second-hand information, I don't get cable TV and I'm not a doctor!)

It may be, though, that in .au you can still expect the government to occasionally regulate corporations effectively on your behalf (especially with your new government -- congratulations).  If so, I could see this working out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russel:</p>
<p>What I was obliquely referring to is the fact that the US courts have taken a very expansive view of the free-speech rights of corporate entities (at the same time they&#8217;re busy restricting the rest of us).  I don&#8217;t know for sure that this applies to commercial advertising, it might only be political advertising, but my impression is that it&#8217;s quite difficult to get anti-advertising rules to actually stick.  (this might be due to &#8220;campaign contributions&#8221; and not the courts, though)</p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t suggesting that the products would be &#8220;sold wildly&#8221; as soon as they were unbanned (by which I guess you mean sold without regulation).  We have lots of restricted pharmaceuticals here &#8212; and many of them are advertised on television and elsewhere in order to convince as many people as possible to start using the drug.  The ads have to meet certain requirements to be legal, but it hasn&#8217;t stopped them from making medically inaccurate (explicit or implicit) claims and attracting many buyers whose need for the drug is questionable. (this is all AIUI from second-hand information, I don&#8217;t get cable TV and I&#8217;m not a doctor!)</p>
<p>It may be, though, that in .au you can still expect the government to occasionally regulate corporations effectively on your behalf (especially with your new government &#8212; congratulations).  If so, I could see this working out.</p>
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		<title>By: etbe</title>
		<link>http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-11052</link>
		<dc:creator>etbe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 05:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-11052</guid>
		<description>Daniel: It really depends on how the legalisation process is implemented.  As for what the courts can regulate, that only depends on the constitution (which is the only real limit on what laws the legislature can pass).  I am not aware of any country with a constitution that only permits products to be banned or sold wildly.  In fact I am not aware of any country that doesn't have restricted pharmaceutical use of chemicals that are also sold on the street.

One possibility is that Heroin could be sold to registered addicts for a nominal fee (low enough that there is no possibility for a black market) and administered at government owned hospitals by nurses (who incidentally administer very similar chemicals to patients who suffer severe pain).  Then no-one would benefit from advertising.

I agree that there should be greater controls on alcohol and tobacco advertising.  I also think that there should be controls on sugar advertising (products which contain sugar as the main ingredient are routinely marketted as health-foods for children).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel: It really depends on how the legalisation process is implemented.  As for what the courts can regulate, that only depends on the constitution (which is the only real limit on what laws the legislature can pass).  I am not aware of any country with a constitution that only permits products to be banned or sold wildly.  In fact I am not aware of any country that doesn&#8217;t have restricted pharmaceutical use of chemicals that are also sold on the street.</p>
<p>One possibility is that Heroin could be sold to registered addicts for a nominal fee (low enough that there is no possibility for a black market) and administered at government owned hospitals by nurses (who incidentally administer very similar chemicals to patients who suffer severe pain).  Then no-one would benefit from advertising.</p>
<p>I agree that there should be greater controls on alcohol and tobacco advertising.  I also think that there should be controls on sugar advertising (products which contain sugar as the main ingredient are routinely marketted as health-foods for children).</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Burrows</title>
		<link>http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-11048</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Burrows</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 03:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-11048</guid>
		<description>Drug legalization would eliminate the pushers for sure, but it seems to me that the companies selling the drugs would be even more aggressive in their advertising.  All the legal sellers of drugs (e.g., tobacco companies, phamaceutical companies) have insanely aggressive and highly targeted branding and advertising campaigns.  True, the federal government occasionally slaps them on the wrist, but never hard enough to stop them from trying again (that would be bad for the re-election campaigns, dontchaknow...)

I've only twice in my life been approached by someone trying to sell me illegal drugs.  I see ads for legal (and likely more dangerous) drugs on a daily basis.  Even if we assume that kids tend to tune out advertisements and are attracted to the illicit dealers, that's still a huge number of advertisements for them to ignore.

I suppose you could try to regulate advertisement at the same time you deregulate drugs, but I don't know if the courts would allow that in this country (Australia may be a different matter here).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drug legalization would eliminate the pushers for sure, but it seems to me that the companies selling the drugs would be even more aggressive in their advertising.  All the legal sellers of drugs (e.g., tobacco companies, phamaceutical companies) have insanely aggressive and highly targeted branding and advertising campaigns.  True, the federal government occasionally slaps them on the wrist, but never hard enough to stop them from trying again (that would be bad for the re-election campaigns, dontchaknow&#8230;)</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve only twice in my life been approached by someone trying to sell me illegal drugs.  I see ads for legal (and likely more dangerous) drugs on a daily basis.  Even if we assume that kids tend to tune out advertisements and are attracted to the illicit dealers, that&#8217;s still a huge number of advertisements for them to ignore.</p>
<p>I suppose you could try to regulate advertisement at the same time you deregulate drugs, but I don&#8217;t know if the courts would allow that in this country (Australia may be a different matter here).</p>
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		<title>By: etbe</title>
		<link>http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-10926</link>
		<dc:creator>etbe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 13:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-10926</guid>
		<description>Felipe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens 

I agree that raising the salary doesn't help on it's own.  Raising the salary while reducing the class sizes will get more good people to become teachers.

Good point about making them look stupid.  Maybe they should provide free drugs to "big brother"...  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Felipe: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens</a> </p>
<p>I agree that raising the salary doesn&#8217;t help on it&#8217;s own.  Raising the salary while reducing the class sizes will get more good people to become teachers.</p>
<p>Good point about making them look stupid.  Maybe they should provide free drugs to &#8220;big brother&#8221;&#8230;  ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Felipe Sateler</title>
		<link>http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-10856</link>
		<dc:creator>Felipe Sateler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 00:11:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-10856</guid>
		<description>I have a few comments:

Alcohol is not a somewhat addictive drug. Deprivation syndrome (or however it's called in English) is stronger for alcohol than for many of the illegal drugs. Quitting marihuana will not get you killed, while quitting alcohol can (assuming a heavy consumer of each).

Raising teachers salaries will not improve education. Raising the competitiveness will, though (better teachers will get better salaries, which in turn makes more people be teachers). 

Making drugs legal will have another positive side-effect: elimination of black market and cartels (and the associated loss of power for those maffias).

In my experience, the most effective way to avoid children and teenagers from consuming drugs (legal or illegal) is to make them (drugs) look stupid, not bad/dangerous. Nobody wants to be stupid, although several will want to be "bad" or "brave" for consuming them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a few comments:</p>
<p>Alcohol is not a somewhat addictive drug. Deprivation syndrome (or however it&#8217;s called in English) is stronger for alcohol than for many of the illegal drugs. Quitting marihuana will not get you killed, while quitting alcohol can (assuming a heavy consumer of each).</p>
<p>Raising teachers salaries will not improve education. Raising the competitiveness will, though (better teachers will get better salaries, which in turn makes more people be teachers). </p>
<p>Making drugs legal will have another positive side-effect: elimination of black market and cartels (and the associated loss of power for those maffias).</p>
<p>In my experience, the most effective way to avoid children and teenagers from consuming drugs (legal or illegal) is to make them (drugs) look stupid, not bad/dangerous. Nobody wants to be stupid, although several will want to be &#8220;bad&#8221; or &#8220;brave&#8221; for consuming them.</p>
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		<title>By: MJ Ray</title>
		<link>http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-10849</link>
		<dc:creator>MJ Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 21:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/11/23/drugs-and-an-election/#comment-10849</guid>
		<description>s/it's/its/ in paragraph one.  Just spotted that, but while I'm here, I'll also link to the similar Preparing For Emergencies scam that the UK government did in the year before our last election and the farce that followed: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3936497.stm
http://www.preparingforemergencies.co.uk/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>s/it&#8217;s/its/ in paragraph one.  Just spotted that, but while I&#8217;m here, I&#8217;ll also link to the similar Preparing For Emergencies scam that the UK government did in the year before our last election and the farce that followed: <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3936497.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3936497.stm</a><br />
<a href="http://www.preparingforemergencies.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.preparingforemergencies.co.uk/</a></p>
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